I love you guys! I support this non-marriage decision. And I totally agree with your points. People should just do whatever makes them happy. Even if there future stepmom is evil as hell. Wait, what?

*I’m talking about my future stepmom. Just incase there was any confusion.

Jermaine

Tax benefits? Insurance?

I know some companies will offer insurance benefits to “domestic partners” be they gay, straight, or otherwise…as long as it’s a partner that you’ve lived with for a certain amount of time.

Aside from that, rock on. How very European of you.

Jeff L

Brilliantly stated. Just because it’s the ‘thing to do’ doesn’t mean you should.

Brian Hefter

Very romantic… like a GoPhone :) Just kidding

Ariel

Very well stated! +100 respect points.

niki brown

Note: While I want to voice my opinion on your post, it is just that… my opinion. I hope not to offend anyone by my words here, but I do feel they are right:

To reject an institution (in this case marriage) due to improper use by others is not the answer. Returning to the core reason for marriage and striving to uphold it is the answer: Marriage was meant to be the ultimate commitment, the melding of two lifestyles, give and take. It was meant to be the giving up of all others for the sake of the one you were marrying. Marriage was always meant to be forever… something our divorce-torn society has forgotten. Marriage is so very special because you are giving of yourself completely to another. Committing to work through the ups and downs, ins and outs of life.

We need more marriages that are willing to do that and more.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts so openly. The unique thoughts and decisions we each make every day make us who we are. Sharing them helps everyone learn more about us.

Douglas Neiner

@Jermaine: LOL! We love you and Gracie too. :)

@Jeff L: Tax benefits and insurance seem like very practical reasons to get married, but if we were into getting married for practical reasons we would’ve done it just to make our mothers happy. :) Also, I’m not sure how our decision to not get married is European, but if there’s less expectation for couples to get married overseas, then maybe that’s where we should set our sights.

@Douglas Neiner: I like getting differing opinions, as long as they’re respectful to me and other commenters, which yours obviously was. :) I think I understand what you’re saying, and yours is probably the view of most happily married people.

First I should probably clarify that Jason and I aren’t swingers or anything, we’ve been 100% monogamous and committed through the course of our relationship. We “gave up all others” a long time ago, so for us marriage wouldn’t change anything in that respect.

I’m a little uncomfortable with the idea that marriage can be “improperly used” by others, which is part of my problem with the concept overall. Too many people try to define it, to say how and when and what it should be. It’s filled with legal and religious overtones, words that imply ownership, and for us those things don’t belong in our relationship.

In my mind, our divorce-torn society hasn’t so much forgotten the true nature of marriage as exposed it for what it is. From our perspective it’s a flawed institution, and one that runs contradictory to the changing nature of love. People grow, and sometimes they grow apart. It’s a fact of human nature that marriage leaves no room for. I feel sometimes divorce can be a blessing, that it’s the lesser evil given the alternative. Living in a loveless home can create generations of damage in a family.

I should also add that both our parents have been together for 20+ years, so we know that marriage can work. But I don’t know that either of our parents would’ve been any less happy had they never been “husband and wife,” rather just “in love,” or “domestic partners,” or whatever you want to call it.

It’s not really my place (or anyone’s) to make that call, nobody knows what’s going on in a relationship except for the people having it. As I said in the post, everyone should do whatever will give them the best life possible. I mainly felt it would be interesting and challenging to discuss our alternative view on marriage.

Meagan Fisher

The very most romantic thing to do would be to get married at city hall and not tell anyone.

Leslie Straw

Well stated. Both the post and your comment.

I also hate that people vehemently try to defend marriage when it obviously isn’t working out too well for at least 50% of the population. If it’s so sacred, you’d think people would take it more seriously.

But, no. People are more enamored with the fairy tale *idea* of marriage than they are with actually staying with someone forever. People need to stop watching so much TV. It fills their heads with unrealistic expectations.

@Leslie: Why would that be romantic? She just said they do not believe in all the BS surrounding the word. It would be the opposite of romantic.

@Meagan: You don’t have to get married to get tax benefits and whatnot. You can go to the courts and get officially partnered or whatever. I dunno the legal term. It’s not marriage but it entitles you to the same privileges without all the religious undertones that try to bend what true love actually means.

For instance, what if one of you (FSM forbid) is in a terrible accident? Without papers to prove you are family, you won’t get visitation rights at the hospital. If nothing else, do it for that.

But overall I admire the way you two are going about it. Don’t give in to the peer pressure! Marriage does not equal love and more people need to see that!

Coheed

You’ve an enlightened perspective on the matter. I’ve a similar view on marriage but am not monogamous. I’m wonderfully lucky to have found 3 individuals who share my views on love and friendship. I may find somebody who so fulfills my need for close interpersonal togetherness that I become monogamous or I may not; I don’t care which happens because I’m happy now and I’ll be happy in the future regardless.

It gets my dander up when people tell folk they should live their lives based on their particular interpreation of age-old dogma. Part of this negative reaction stems from my irreligiousness, I’m sure, but most of it is a simple, rational reaction to the the senselessness of the suggestions. For example:

“There’s this millenniums-old tradition of marriage, and you should follow it just because it’s a tradition.”

In’t that great? “Do it because it’s a tradition.” Fine! While we’re at it, let’s begin digging libation tubes to the graves of our dead and “feeding” them milk and honey annually on All Saints Day. Better yet, let’s observe Shatnez and forbid all people from wearing linen and wool together! Even greater still, why don’t we start stoning adulterers, idol-worshipers and of course any draft animal which mauls or gores a human being? Those are traditions, too, and if the logic holds true for the tradition of marriage, so must it hold true for all other traditions. This type of reasoning is a logical fallacy usually referred to as an appeal to popularity or tradition.

Then of course there are the various “the Invisible Being(s) I pray to command you to enter into marriage” type suggestions, which are on their face both irrational and wholly impertinent to the life of any irreligious person (or, indeed, to any person who prays to a different Invisible Being or group thereof).

If I don’t stop now I’ll spoil your lovely post with a mean-spirited rant about oppressive religiousness in America. I applaud you for posting this personal insight.

Jambe

That was an oddly touching read. Well written, and well said – I have the same thoughts on the whole topic.

Matt Wilcox

You know, Leslie has a point. Then you could get all the state-benefits of marriage (you could even call it a civil union!), and none of the baggage. It’s easy to keep your finances and such separate, but get a discount on filing taxes jointly, get rights and benefits if the other person becomes ill or passes away. I don’t think it’s “being married” that constrains people, it’s outside perceptions that constrain.

Heck, for all we know, you’ve done this all ready and you’re using this post for cover. :-)

(not trying to impose society on anyone… just throwing out some ideas for discussion… do as you like!)

“nobody knows what’s going on in a relationship except for the people having it.”
This is so true. And deciding to live by your own rules, and not other’s expectations is the “secret” to success in a relationship.

Brian Christiansen

Meagan, it was very bold of you to write this post. I feel you should never deny your feelings and do something just because people (or society) tell you it’s the right thing to do.

If you are not religious, most reasons for getting married go out the window (minus the superficial ones like tax benefits and the like, which shouldn’t even be considered). Why would you want to “unite two souls into one” if you don’t believe that two souls “can” be united by marriage? It would be pointless to engage in something you do not fully believe in. And there’s nothing wrong with that.

I think marriage as a whole has been commercialized to the point where non-religious people are engaging in what is meant to be a sacred, religious, ceremonial ritual. They do it because it’s expected or it’s just the next step. Some do it because they want a picture perfect wedding, others are just bored.

These are very wrong reasons to get married.

I think your choice is a fine one, rather than do something you don’t believe in, you are doing something that feels right to both of you, and that’s great. Best wishes to you both!

Chris Wallace

Don’t mean to be rude at all, but, if everythings AOK, why need to reassure it publicly? The fact of writing this post is exactly like getting married: A social expression of your love. You just decided to tell strangers rather than your families.
I agree with Leslie: “The very most romantic thing to do would be to get married at city hall and not tell anyone”.
Anyway it’s always cute to see people in love and stuff. Congrats.

Alex

@everyone: I get what you’re saying about the tax / insurance / visitation right benefits. I guess since neither of us has thought about saving money on taxes and insurance too much, so this isn’t something we really worry about. Maybe if we ever start being more fiscally responsible we will.

I know there’s some issues with us being considered “family”, and the implications that has for hospital visits, etc. The one time Jason was in the hospital, I sat right in the room with him (with a curtain around Jason) while the doctor gave him a rectal exam (he was having stomach issues). If I’m allowed to do that, I guess I’d hope they’d let me sit with him through almost anything. But maybe that’s naive. I don’t know that much about it, but you’re right, it’s something to consider.

@coheed: I feel like you kind of missed the point of a lot of what I was saying. I don’t think people need to “take marriage more seriously,” and I don’t think people need to watch less TV. But thanks for your comment anyway.

@jambe: Overall I think I agree with what you’re saying – I don’t believe in following traditions if they’re not right for an individual. For some marriage is a great tradition, and I say more power to them. For us, it’s a tradition that doesn’t really make sense. And you’re right to assume that our lack of religious beliefs has a lot to do with us not wanting to be married. However, I don’t really think there’s an “oppressive religiousness” issue in America, especially relative to other parts of the world. In some countries not only would I not have the option to stay unwed, I wouldn’t even be able to choose who I was staying unwed to. I recognize, and am grateful for, the amount of personal freedoms I have here in America. Not that it couldn’t always be better.

@brian: “Deciding to live by your own rules, and not other’s expectations is the ‘secret’ to success in a relationship.” I couldn’t agree more. This gets at the heart of what I was trying to say with the post.

@chris: Thanks for your comment. I agree that weddings have been really commercialized, which is another big part of our discomfort with the whole concept. For a lot of people it’s like some kind of adult prom, and I really hated prom. Shows like Bridezilla, wedding magazines, pre-wedding starvation diets, etc. reinforce how commercial and warped it’s become. I know it wouldn’t necessarily have to be that way for us, so maybe in that sense Leslie’s suggestion is the ideal one.

@alex: I wasn’t trying to reassure strangers that I’m in love, why should you care? Our families already know Jason and I love each other, and are committed to one another. We’ve lived together for 5+ years. I’m not sure how getting married would drive that point home even further.

Since you asked, the reason I wrote this post was to start a dialogue about marriage and weddings, so in that sense I guess the it was a success. It’s something we like talking about with each other, and it often comes up amongst our friends, because so many people ask us when we’re getting married.

Meagan Fisher

In our group of peers (SFAI graduate students nevermind how many years ago) no one even considered getting married, it was too embarrassingly conventional and trite for all the good reasons mentioned already. We did anyway to the complete shock of our families, which of course made it more attractive. I had a red dress and veil. The inexperienced person officiating accidentally said what God has put asunder let no man put together! and something about troglodytes. The whole thing was too funny but so sweet.

Logically I know it makes no sense, but if you find that right person ritualized commitment is incredibly (for want of a better word) romantic on a primordial level. So I say elope or go to city hall on the sly.

But wear an owl suit and post the pictures for us all afterward.

Leslie Straw

People change to frequently (especially in their twenties) to ever say something is ‘forever’ with finality. Who wants to have to get a judge to tell you something’s over? That said, I feel I one day will get married, but only because it will make my mom really happy–and that is worth it to me. That and the presents.

If you had the money to do it, throw a wedding but don’t get a legal presider, this way everyone will have a nice day to celebrate your relationship but at the end of the day no papers have to be signed.

Ryan

Very thought-provoking post indeed, as I am starting to plan a wedding. While I feel like marriage is the right thing for me, I wish that it could be redefined in a legal context. Like you mentioned, the word “marriage” has religious undertones that prevent a lot of people from even being allowed to experience it. I hate that. I really don’t understand where the separation of church and state is in our current system.

I won’t be having a church wedding, but for me, I do like the idea of publicly announcing our commitment to one another.

That said, I do find it quite romantic to think that even with completely free will, you’ve stayed together for a long time.

Amy

“Committing to work through the ups and downs, ins and outs of life.”

Well that’s it in a nutshell isn’t it, Douglas. It’s not the marriage certificate or ring that will make the relationship last but the commitment between the two people. If you don’t have that inner commitment from the very start, the marriage certificate and ring aren’t going to make much of a difference. :)

That’s part of the problem with people today. They assume after they get married, everything will be peachy keen and a fairy tale. Wrong. A relationship of any kind takes a lot of hard work that you have to work on every single day. The upside though is that often it doesn’t take much. Something as simple as hugging your significant other after they’ve had a hard day’s work can make a big difference (and more often than not, you’ll feel better too!).

PS. As you can guess, my wife and I aren’t married either, yet we’ve been together for almost 20 years.

Nollind Whachell

What a fantastic post! I love it when people think. I find it amazing the things we can come up with using a little brain power.

Random Reader Named Maild

I got married last year, for various practical and personal reasons. WRT our relationship it’s been great, but I wasn’t prepared for how much we were inviting the rest of society into our partnership in a weird and abstract way. I don’t like it, especially as I was all for defining marriage for myself and now I’m irritated that groupthink is affecting me much more than I would like. I’m also highly annoyed that I care that my mum didn’t like my dress.

I didn’t plan telling anyone unless it came up in normal conversation, but a colleague couldn’t keep himself from telling everyone in my industry… It didn’t occur to me that people would do that, that people would see it as the most important thing in my life. I didn’t know that so many women still change their names and it would be assumed that I had too.

We got married in a registry office on the beach with immediate family only, I wore a red high street dress and the entire thing cost about £1k. If UK law allowed it we would have preferred to be civil partners rather than husband and wife, but they don’t. I think making an official commitment was absolutely the right thing for us but I’ve no interest in what most people mean by marriage.

Mary-Ann

The great thing about having a wedding is that you can do however the heck you want. I’m getting married in July, and we’re having a very non-traditional wedding: no mention of God, no matching outfits for everyone, no goofy wedding cake — just a really good party and a way to show each other and our families the devotion we have for each other and for them. I mean, our invites feature Ewoks dancing on them!

Eventually, you’ll have to sign papers of some sort in regards to the love of your live. Life Insurance, Mortgage Insurance, your will — you’ll want to make sure things & money are allocated to the person you love and not the government.

Carl

Thank you for this. Just thank you. Someday I do want to get married, but that day is a long way off – one, because I’m still young, and two, because same-sex marriages are still not legal in most states. Your reasons for not getting married really struck a cord in me and brought tears to my eyes. Thank you so much for sharing your opinion about this. I’m glad there are some people who see the hypocrisy of the current marriage ideals, and even though I plan on marrying my girlfriend someday, I hope it’s at a time when the term marriage doesn’t bring to mind resentment or isolation.

Thank you for this post.

Nikki

This is a great discussion topic and thank you for sharing your thoughts. We have many similar opinions on the topic.

I have been with my boyfriend for 6.5 years and we also get the “when are you getting married?” question… a lot. There is a lot of pressure to get married, and it seems like the only reason is because it seems logical and follows tradition. This is not enough of a reason for us to get married. We will get married when we feel ready to and excited about it. If anything, I feel more loved because my boyfriend has willingly decided to be with me year after year, through the thick and the thin. Either of us can leave whenever we want but we both make a choice everyday to be with one another. Isn’t that a strong enough commitment and true love? A piece of paper, in my opinion, can’t give you that.

Chrissy

Great post, it’s just a shame that so many people still don’t “get it” (which is the only way I can describe those who, after you’ve just said you’re not getting married, go on to try and convince you anyway).

My partner and I have been together nearly 8 years, we’re expecting a baby in November. We’ve seen each other at our absolute worst, best, and most frequently, somewhere in the middle. Marriage is the absolute last thing on our minds and our relationship doesn’t suffer in any way because of it.

Jem

Thanks so much for writing this… I agree with you on pretty much everything, and have also been getting the “when” question from a few relatives (but not too many, thankfully). My boyfriend and I have been together for almost six years, and have lived together for almost three. I think that’s a pretty good sign of commitment to me, and don’t feel the need to prove it in any other way to anyone else.

I do think the whole visitation rights/medical issues that have been brought up are very valid. That’s really the only issue I have with not being married.

jess

http://metalmother.com/motherboard/index.php/2008/11/married/

Leslie Straw

I totally see your point and I applaud you for knowing what you both want. I do want to get married some day, not in a church and not in front of 400 people. Something small and private and definitely, romantic.

Monica Aguinaga

If you do ever decide to, elope to VT. Walk into town hall anywhere and get a license, hire a Justice of the Peace. We did a planned elopement, just us, just our day/weekend.

Mark

Oh, being married feels different (to me) than being together. Better. Honestly! Wouldn’t have thought it would be this way beforehand, though.

Cheers from Germany,
Dieter

(Male/35/together with my wife for 10 years,
married since 9 month.)

Dieter

It’s too bad marriage has gotten such a bad rap. It’s not supposed to be about economy or politics, it’s supposed to be about, just putting two lives together.

Delores

hi Meagan,

I stumbled on your blog from some twitter links posted by a friend. And i stayed on and read a few things. I loved your piece on Father’s day – beautiful and touching. And then I read the “on Marriage” piece. Absolutely beautiful. I am married for 17 years now and my husband and i have a wonderful relationship. I almost feel like un-marrying him, because i know we’ll still be together…. here’s to jason and you! And many years of happiness and togetherness

(I live in Goa, India)

Meenakshi Chellam

[...] Her entries cover more than just web design, in fact I have to say I deeply appreciated her entry, On Marriage, and unique, humanistic perspective. Thanks Meagan – I [and Mucha too] look forward to [...]

mucha’s pick: Owltastic | artmake

Hi, I just read your thoughts about marriage, and wanted to leave you with a few of my own:

My husband and I will be celebrating our 20th Anniversary this year: the most significant & growing years of our lives. There are some things about a ‘wedding’ that I didn’t ‘get’ until many years down the line. Like you, the organizational juggling of getting all these people together & feeding them seemed overwhelming! But the focus of the day is not the tablecloths or the dresses, or really ANY of the’stuff’ … it’s about 2 people celebrating their love and commitment to each other WITH the people who love them.

The whole thing about ‘for richer, for poorer, in sickness & in health’ etc. is that those events are time sensitive. We are not ‘richer’ and ‘poorer’ over the course of a weekend. We are not ‘sick’ & then ‘healthy’ quickly. Part of the reason we have made it through the ‘healthy’ & ‘rich’ times is because we needed to lean on each other HARD through the ‘poor’ & ‘sick’ times. It is through adversity the character of this person you love is developed,tested & tried. It is those times when you are so thankful you GET to stay together, rather than HAVE to.

Whether a priest or a JP performs the ceremony, that person does not keep the marriage together, and ultimately, neither do all of the family & friends. It’s the daily decision to keep turning to each other.

Family & friends come & go with time, whether we like it or not. My grandparents, who danced at our wedding, are now gone. My husband’s father passed away 3 months before the birth of our first child. It is in the midst of generations we experience time. A ‘Wedding’ is a formal acknowledgement that your life has changed from infant, to child, to adolescent, to adult. We all move up One. Time pulls us all towards the same destination. Part of the celebration is the opportunity to capture a moment & hold dear the people who are still there, the joy of getting together one more time and expanding the family unit to fit one more in. It is easy to forget that the number of times we have to see our loved ones diminishes each time we get together. There are only so many years, or days, left to be with them.

What the institution of marriage WAS in years gone by, and what it IS to YOU can, & will, be light years apart, just as our marriage is different from any other marriage. It’s your soup – you can make it as spicy or bland as you want (wink)!

I have always thought that the most beautiful, meaningful word in the whole ceremony is ‘Cherish’. Have you ever cupped a baby bird in your hands, felt its heart beat wildly, the soft down of its feathers & the sharpness of its’ tiny claws? There, in your care, is LIFE, a fragile miracle that is completely dependent on your choice to destroy or to honour. Just as delicate is the human heart, & so it is that marriage is entered into with care & great trembling, like the heart of a tiny bird.

These are some of the things I see now that I didn’t see then. Enjoy the carnival of life, we only get one ticket to ride…

Sincerely,
Kim

Kim Schellenberg

[...] Meagan Fisher on marriage. [...]

Pride - Rainbeau Seitz

[...] Meagan Fisher on marriage. [...]

Pride - Rainbeau Seitz

I love this blog. Just found it thru vector tuts.
And I share the desire to remain unmarried…

To allow yourself to explore what makes you feel the most comfortable….and the most joyous….. Regardless of what is “socially accepted”…. Regardless of what may be an “intelligent financial decision”.

This is a gift. It is frightening at times of insecurity. But our mind and the interest and desires that command it, have a place somewhere close to divinity.
It is quite incredible to …….exist. explore.

So, the challenge is to accept the gift and trust in it.

I accept.
Exploring that is.
Till death do us into dispersion.

Robbii

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2009/07/15/traister_marriage/index.html

BrentP

My sister and her husband(I call him her husband as boyfriend doesn’t do justice) have been together for 15 years now. They have a house, a dog, a cat and two cars. They get all the tax benefits as married couples do. They don’t plan to get married ever, and they are the happiest couple I know, married or unmarried.

helly

In our group of peers (SFAI graduate students nevermind how many years ago) no one even considered getting married, it was too embarrassingly conventional and trite for all the good reasons mentioned already. We did anyway to the complete shock of our families, which of course made it more attractive. I had a red dress and veil. The inexperienced person officiating accidentally said what God has put asunder let no man put together! and something about troglodytes. The whole thing was too funny but so sweet.

Logically I know it makes no sense, but if you find that right person ritualized commitment is incredibly (for want of a better word) romantic on a primordial level. So I say elope or go to city hall on the sly.

But wear an owl suit and post the pictures for us all afterward.

müzik dinle

“They get all the tax benefits as married couples do. ”

This simply is not possible (at least not in the US- maybe they are somewhere else) because married couples are treated differently by the government than unmarried couples (even those living together for a long time – the exception is states with common-law marriage, by which you get married by default if you’ve been living together long enough. Still marriage though).

There is a good reason that so many gay couples are fighting for this legal benefit. It’s not just to make them feel good – there are serious legal and financial implications involved with getting married that are easy to take for granted if they’re readily available to you. Sure, it’s just a piece of paper…until you want to put your partner on your health insurance and find that you cannot. Or until your partner become incapacitated and you are not the person allowed to make medical decisions for him because you have no legal relationship to him whatsoever. In fact, in a critical care situation, you may not be allowed into the room at all. Or until you want to adopt a baby and are flat out rejected because you aren’t married. Unfortunately, these things happen all the time.

Anyway, I don’t mean to be critical or negative, but it’s hard not to get frustrated when I see straight people so blithely dismiss marriage and take those benefits for granted while gay people are fighting so hard just to be allowed to do the same thing.

Marriage is what you make of it. The past is the past, and there’s no reason you have to follow the traditions of the past. Just as so many negative words and other things have been reclaimed in a positive light for a new generation, why not make modern marriage into an institution that you can be proud of?

Marie

Very thought-provoking and well stated, but my idea is a lil different, but that’s my opinion only.

Wish u guys all the very best.

Sayan Mukherjee

I totally agree! My boyfriend and I are in the same situation and I always feel like I have to explain everything.

I have resulted to saying “I don’t know.” – which ALWAYS throws people off ;)

Wynne

Fantastic! You’ve summed up all the reasons why I hate the marriage institution. And I have a friend of mine who is getting married, has picked out my bridesmaid dress, and keeps squealing to me… and I have to be supportive and helpful and hide my feelings.

Thanks for speaking out publicly on this!

Tracy Osborn

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2009/07/15/traister_marriage/index.html

PI

[...] by Himitsu Hitori on August 5, 2010 · Leave a Comment  I just read a post about why a couple made the mutual decision not to get married. They, like many who consciously make [...]

Wuv, truw wuv… « Morpheme Arsenal

Kudos to you guys! I agree with you 100%.

Jeff’s comment about this being “European of you” is actually quite accurate. Come to Sweden! We’ve got free healthcare and no stigma on non-marital relationships :)

Pontus